[Source: Happy Lawyer Happy Life]
Episode 194 – It’s the little things that matter most with Lawyer Christopher Melcher
Celebrity divorce lawyer Christopher C. Melcher explains how to find happiness in the legal profession.
In this week’s episode of the ‘Happy Lawyer Happy Life Podcast’ Australian lawyer Clarissa Rayward visited L.A., in a virtual sense and had an amazing chat with celebrity divorce lawyer Christopher C. Melcher of top family law firm Walzer Melcher LLP.
After finding life as a lawyer challenging and sometimes anything but happy, Clarissa Rayward has to work hard to find our own happiness, in law and in life. In this show Clarissa interviews key people with compelling stories, having a positive dialogue about happiness in the legal profession that will encourage you to make changes in your legal life before it’s too late.
“The old litigation attitude, at least here was, is that you can’t be friends with other lawyers, you need to be on the attack at all times and watching for the trap. And, what I’ve learned is that you can treat people well, you can certainly zealously advocate for your client, and you don’t have to kill each other, and you don’t have to dislike each other. And actually, if you bond and you respect each other, and communicate well, we can help the client.,” explains top family law attorney Christopher C. Melcher.
Clarissa Rayward:
Now, as I think you know, my first question is always, if you weren’t a lawyer, what would you be?
Christopher Melcher:
Well, what I would like to do is have a video program on sites around California, people the things that make the state great. And, there was another gentleman who had a show like that Huell Houser, and I loved growing up watching it, and he’s not around anymore. But, I found that that was just a great way to explore, show people who maybe can’t get out or don’t want to venture off the beaten path things, and I just always was good at that. I’m hoping one day might be able to do that, but that would be my dream job.
Clarissa Rayward:
I love how specific that is. It’s like, not only do I know I want a video show, I know the topic, I know exactly what I’d be doing. What stops you from doing that? Because it does actually sound pretty well thought out.
Christopher Melcher:
Well, I’m hoping, and I’ve been doing some TV interviews all on law, and getting to know people, and getting to understand how to do TV interviews, and I’m hoping that I may be able to transition to that one day. Right now it’s hard to turn away the money from the law practice, and I’m 51, and in a good spot right now in my career, so it would be foolish to stop doing that right now. But, I’m working a nine-year plan, so I think at 60-
Clarissa Rayward:
I love it.
Christopher Melcher:
… I won’t need to work anymore. I may choose to do so but I won’t have to. And hopefully, at that point, all these things that I’ve put on hold, and as top family law attorneys, we tend to sacrifice ourselves. And, I’m hoping that I will have the discipline to start doing the things that I really want to do.
Clarissa Rayward:
I love that. I love how specific you are, and how planned you are. I’m going to learn about this plan, I sense as we go through this conversation. Can I take you back? Did you grow up where you’re living now in Los Angeles?
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. I’ve been in Los Angeles my whole life, and seen quite a number of changes, but that’s home for me.
Clarissa Rayward:
And Los Angeles, from my perspective, is a very big place. So, which part are you, or which part did you grow up in? And, which part are you living in now?
Christopher Melcher:
So, I’m in a town called Woodland Hills, which is about 15 minutes from Malibu, so it’s a suburb in what we call the valley. And it’s hot, and when I grew up there it was very quiet, things have gotten a little busier now. But, it’s removed from the intensity of other parts of the city, and that’s what I like, because it’s close enough, I can get anywhere, I could do anything 24/7, but I’m not living in it.
Clarissa Rayward:
I often wonder that, my experiences in Los Angeles have been stopping there to go somewhere else in America when I’ve gone over for trips, and I think the most time I’ve spent anywhere there is maybe two nights. And, I’ve often thought to myself, if I lived here, I wonder how much the people that live here actually connecting with, say, Hollywood and all of the tourist center that most of us drop into when we do these passes through Los Angeles. I’m assuming you don’t spend your weekends going into Beverly Hills, or whatever it might be. Is that a correct assumption?
Christopher Melcher:
It is. I think the traffic is one impediment, but it’s an intense place and expensive, and I find that people are closed off, and they work a lot. And so, it’s a lonely place, neighbors don’t talk to each other, meet each other. It’s not friendly. Sorry, Los Angeles, but that’s true. It’s such a gigantic, sprawling city that really lacks, at least for me as a resident a whole lot of identity. But, there are things about it that make it special you just have to look for them. But yeah, it’s an odd place, because it’s so big, and there is so much to offer there, but people I think struggle to understand what it is because it’s so huge.
Clarissa Rayward:
So, why law? How did that fall into your life?
Christopher Melcher:
That was easy. My dad was a prosecutor. He was a deputy district attorney for Los Angeles, and he went to law school as I was being born, I guess right then. And, went to the DA’s office and was a prosecutor, and was doing murder trials and stuff. And, when I was a kid, I remember this, I could have been maybe seven years old. He would come home, and he’d be working the weekends on these murder trials, and he would talk to me about it, and he would say, “Well, here’s what happened. Here’s what I’m trying to prove.” And then he would say, “What do you think?” And, he was truly interested, and those conversations formed my legal mind, and we would discuss these pretty difficult cases, and he would explain to me the law that I would need to know to help analyze it. But, that was my growing up was talking about murder trials. And so-
Clarissa Rayward:
There’s the quote for the episode right there, Christopher.
Christopher Melcher:
I mean, and that helped because then I would understand like, “Okay. This is what a lawyer is.” I’ve mentored a lot of people, and law students, and a lot of them have never met a lawyer, and they don’t know what a lawyer does. I got to grow up with one. I knew exactly… And, he showed me a lot of stuff that he shouldn’t have, but I saw him hang up or watched him hang up on his boss, the district attorney one time when he got upset. I saw him when he went into private practice, have very difficult times with clients and judges, and he would tell me about these things, and I learned from that. And, I feel like I’ve had this benefit of his career when I started mine.
Christopher Melcher:
So, when I was in fifth grade, I decided I was going to be a lawyer, and so it was just a matter of time until I did it. And growing up, I had a great friend Don, who’s still my great friend, and we’d get in trouble a lot. And so in detention, we would be waiting to talk to the principal, and I would help him craft his story, and I would say, “Okay. Well, what happened? And, here’s what you’re going to say, and here’s your defense.” And he’d be like, “Oh my God, this is great.” And, he would go in and he would get off. And so, I was basically practicing as a volunteer lawyer early on. So, that was easy.
Clarissa Rayward:
I love it. Advocating for my school colleagues, to get them out of detention. What an amazing opportunity, I guess on one hand, and that experience to have your father. Working in my head as you told that story, can I say, I’ve got Law and Order in my head. I’m like, “Oh, wow, Christopher literally got to live the TV show.” But, what an amazing influence to have in your life, and the fact that your dad, I guess allowed you to be such a part of his work life. No doubt that has impacted on where you’ve gone with your legal career.
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. I mean, it made it fun. It made it easy. I think just the analysis part of being a lawyer just came natural to me. I didn’t really want to do the work that it took to become a lawyer, so that was not as easy for me, but I knew what I wanted to do, and it was nice, and I understood the job. And, for my dad’s credit, he didn’t just talk at me, we live life together, and he brought me along and treated me like my opinion mattered. And so with my son now who’s 12, I have a hard time getting his attention, but when I get it, I’m hoping he’s learning. I’m trying to do the same.
Clarissa Rayward:
To become a lawyer in the States, obviously you finish high school, and then as I… The limited information or knowledge I have about, I guess your training and the steps that you have to take, there are some differences between what is done in America and what is done in Australia. So, can you talk me through, I guess how you become a lawyer over where you’re practicing?
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. So, you go through high school, and then you go to college, which is about four years. You can study anything in college, you just need a college degree, and then you go to law school, which is another three years, then you take this bar exam, and then if you pass, you’re a lawyer. And, there’s no training, there’s no supervision, you just have a license, and you could literally take a murder trial the day you’re licensed.
Clarissa Rayward:
[inaudible 00:13:50].
Christopher Melcher:
It’s a ridiculous system, and I just don’t understand it. That all of that training… I wouldn’t say training, actually there’s no training, it’s education. The education does not prepare one to be a lawyer. And so saying, “Okay. Well, now because someone has taken a bunch of classes, and passed them, and passed an exam that they can go out and start practicing law.” I think is irresponsible to the client. It does a disservice to the attorney. I taught a law school class and hoping to be invited back at the school that I went to, Pepperdine in Malibu on family law last year, and I spent a lot of time talking about what it is to be a lawyer. And, similar to the lessons my dad gave me, I would bring in a case every week and say, “Here’s a case that I’m handling, it’s relevant to this and what I’m going through.” And, hope that they would, at least through that class, get an idea of what a practicing lawyer really does.
Clarissa Rayward:
It’s interesting, you’re in essence raising the same issues that are being discussed, certainly where I work over here in Australia. This gap, I’ll call it between, for us university studies, for you law school, and then the actual practice of law. And, there’s a lot of debate at the moment around whether law schools should be preparing students to be practicing lawyers, or whether law school should be, I guess that more esoteric education piece, and the actual practice of law is a training that you need to have separate to that. When I became a lawyer, we had a wonderful system over here at the time called articles of clerkship, which in essence meant that, either while you were studying, or when you completed your studies, you did an, let’s call it a paid internship, or a training, a training period.
Clarissa Rayward:
For us at the time, it was either two years or five years. And over that period of time, you didn’t call yourself a lawyer, because you weren’t in that moment qualified yet as a solicitor, as we call it here in Australia. And, that system has fallen away, I think I was probably one of the last to come through the articles system. And so, I agree with what you’re saying, there really is such a gap between university education, or college education, and the practice of law. And the question is, how do we fill that gap in modern times when it’s costing people a fortune to get through law school? They need to be able to work and be paid. But, it must be terrifying as well coming out, having this piece of paper and qualification, but not necessarily knowing the day-to-day practice of how you do what you’re supposed to do.
Christopher Melcher:
Well, that’s it. And, law firms mostly are not equipped to do the training. Small firms don’t have the luxury to invest a lot in training a brand new lawyer, and we hope to find somebody who already knows something. And so, who is it that trains these new lawyers, and they just have to learn. I guess, in similar ways to a lot of us did, but I mean, who they really learning from, and what does that person know? And, what I’ve seen in family law is, lawyers, at least here that basically self-train, self-taught, maybe have worked for some very small firm before. And really, there’s some big gaps in knowledge compared to lawyers who worked in bigger firms, and had more training and exposure.
Christopher Melcher:
So, it is a problem, and I think some clerking opportunities, some practical experience under supervision of a lawyer is necessary, because clients can’t… Unless they’re really sophisticated, they don’t have the ability to pick a lawyer that well, and it’s often too late until they realize the lawyer that they did select isn’t up for the job.
Clarissa Rayward:
Your own experience then, of going through college, and then to law school. You obviously had your dad in your life, which was a great help in terms of the practical understanding of what was doing, but how did you build up those skills in your own life?
Christopher Melcher:
Losing a lot.
Clarissa Rayward:
I love that. Tell me more.
Christopher Melcher:
When I got out of law school, because I raced through once I finally figured it out that I actually had to go to school and pass my classes. So, once I got that out of my-
Clarissa Rayward:
You couldn’t just debate with teachers anymore.
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. I just figured, “Hey, this isn’t working.” And so, I actually started paying attention, and I got through very quick. And, because of that I was really young when I got out, I think I was 24, and I looked probably 18. Nobody took me seriously, so I would really do my homework. I would study the case really well. But, I didn’t know a whole lot, and so when I would go into court I would sometimes get just yelled at by judges. And, it was through those really harsh experiences that I said, “Hey, I don’t want to make a mistake. I don’t want to look bad. I don’t want to get yelled at.” So, I just studied harder, and I learned, and I got every book, and I read everything I could. You know back then, I didn’t really understand, I had my dad still, but I didn’t really understand that the community of lawyers… Because my dad actually didn’t like other lawyers. He despised them actually.
Christopher Melcher:
He didn’t have a lot of lawyer friends, and so I didn’t understand about this community of lawyers that I have now, where it’s such a small group, and we’re all willing to help each other. And so, I didn’t know that I could just reach out to other lawyers and ask them for help, so I just got every book that I couldn’t read it.
Clarissa Rayward:
I think it’s such an interesting point that you raise, because as much as you say, you learned by losing, I think my interpretation of what you’re really saying, is you learn through making mistakes, in many respects, and realizing that, “Okay. That pathway wasn’t the right one.” Or, “Next time I should have asked for help.” Or, whatever it is. And, I think we all have that experience, like even every amount of training and support, you’re still going to not do things perfectly the first time. It’s a conversation I’ve been having with one of my graduate lawyers who started here in the last few months. He gets really excited when he hands me a piece of work, and then when I say, “Look, I would have done it this way.” And, he gets really disappointed, and I’m like, “It’s okay. You’re meant to be learning. This is the process. You’re not meant to have it all the minute you step into a law firm.” Were you working with your dad in those early stages? Is that what your LinkedIn resume tells me?
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah.
Clarissa Rayward:
I was trying to work it out when I was going back through.
Christopher Melcher:
I was able to work with my dad, and my brother, actually.
Clarissa Rayward:
How beautiful. Oh, wow.
Christopher Melcher:
My brother and I, we went to law school at the same time. He decided to go to law school, so it was at the same time in the same class. We were there together. And then, when we graduated we all got to practice together for a couple years, and so that that was nice. And then eventually, I went out on my own, but it was fun. Because my dad was, he’s just hilarious. He took his job very serious, but he liked to joke around a lot, so we had fun together. But, there were many a case that I had on my own, and those are the ones that when I didn’t have his protection, were the hard learning lessons.
Clarissa Rayward:
Yeah. The decision to go out, you said on your own, but in essence to start your own law firm by the sounds of it, where did that decision come from? What was the driver there for you?
Christopher Melcher:
Well, I think it was just a natural growing experience. My dad was starting to wind down and I wanted to go in a different direction. And so at that point, I was doing criminal defense, and I was able to get into a niche that I didn’t really ever expect or want, but I started handling more and more serious cases, because that’s what I wanted to do. And then, I took a job for this other criminal defense lawyer after being in practice for myself for a while, and this lady, Gigi Gordon was with just a phenomenal defense attorney, and she had a contract with the County of Los Angeles to defend sexually violent predators, and she needed somebody to do that work, and she assigned it to me.
Christopher Melcher:
It was a very specialized area. And so, I started doing that work, and I put myself in everything, so I really wanted to win. And then, eventually I told Gigi, I said, “What if I actually win one of these cases?” And she said, “Well, if you’re thinking that, this is probably not the right line of work for you.” And I said, “Yeah, you’re right.” And, it was right at that time that a gentleman down the hall from me, Peter Walzer was a solo family lawyer, was looking to bring somebody on to do trials, and we had known each other casually, just went to lunch a few times, and he said, “Hey, why don’t you come work for me?”
Christopher Melcher:
I didn’t know anything about family law. I never thought I would do divorce. And, at that point it seemed a very small step above representing sex predators, and so I said, “Okay.” And, when I started doing that he had… Even though he was solo, he had some really interesting big cases, and I realized that family law was nothing like I expected, and it was just the most fascinating area. And, never look back, never regretted it. And, I’m glad that I was open to that opportunity, because I could have just as easily said, “No, I’m all in on criminal.” And so, it’s just that power of being open, and in allowing opportunities to present.
Clarissa Rayward:
You’re now moving into the land that I know and love. Before we go into the world of family law and get consumed by that conversation, so many interesting things in what you just said. Firstly, doing what I can only imagine must have been incredibly difficult work in that space of dealing with sex offenders, and exactly as you said, that moment where you realized, “Hang on a second, if I actually do my job really, really well. These are the consequences of that.”
Clarissa Rayward:
And, those ethical and moral conversations that we have to have in our heads around some of the pieces of work that we have, and then how that parlays back into the justice system, and the rule of law, and the importance of that that underpins a society. These are things that lawyers have to grapple with all the time. And, that work must have been taking a toll on you as a person, and I take it by then too, you probably had family, or were in those early stages of having family. All of that. What can you share with me about that? Because there must be some learnings for others in that piece of your career?
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. I think that the other cases, criminal cases that I had handled did not have that impact on me. I think that the nature of these offenders was so severe. And, what’s hard is that I’m passionate about what I do. It could be anything. If I had to clean the floor, I would just want to do the best job that I could possibly do cleaning that floor, so that’s just the way I’m wired. So, if I’m assigned to defend somebody, I want to win that case. And, in what I’ve found is, is that there’s something special about everyone, even people who have done the most awful things, there’s something about them that makes them interesting.
Christopher Melcher:
And, there was one gentleman who… Well, hard to call him a gentleman, but one client, and I was getting ready for his trial, it was a one-month trial, and my wife, because I didn’t have any help. I mean, defense lawyers didn’t have any budget. So, I had to get all these exhibits together, and back then it’s all paper. And so I asked my wife, “Hey, I got to get all these exhibit books together will you do it.” And so, she starts reading these police reports, and seeing what this guy had done, but I said, “Yeah. But, there’s something charming about him.” And I said, “I wouldn’t mind actually having him over dinner one time, because he’s an interesting guy.” And she’s just like, “Don’t you dare.”
Christopher Melcher:
That’s where, like I say, I think that I started to realize that, even though I always kept extreme boundaries with my clients, and I had to, because a piece of glass between us when we would meet, but it was just that I want to do my all for my client, and I want to like my client, and I want to help them, and I want to serve them, but there’s some people that it is a challenge to do that. And, I really respect the defense attorneys who are able to put aside all of those things that I was struggling with, even though I did my all for that gentleman. It’s just that I struggled with it internally. Again, it just wasn’t for me.
Clarissa Rayward:
Yeah. And, I think that’s such a wonderful honest observation, and a realization too. And, I love where your career is going next in this conversation, but a realization that the skills that you have in whatever practice area that you’ve been training in and learning aren’t wasted as you make that pivot into the next piece, for you into family law. I also began my career mainly working in criminal law. But, I would call it at the lower end of the seriousness, as opposed to the higher end of the seriousness.
Clarissa Rayward:
But, there was just so many parallels between my work as a criminal lawyer and my work as a family lawyer, that I didn’t find it overly difficult to move between the two different types of law. Both are based, obviously very much in human beings and human experience, and so those skills I think are ultimately, what makes for a great family lawyer, is the ability to connect with people, have empathy for people, understand their perspective, maybe not always agree with this, but understand their perspective, and then help them along the way accordingly. And, they’re the same skills that you need, I think, in criminal law. Aren’t they?
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. It’s certainly personal litigation, and this isn’t representing a corporation or something. We’re representing an individual at are very difficult time in their life, high stakes, and so there are similarities there. I think that the criminal background helped me as a family lawyer because of these boundaries that had to be established with my criminal clients. And like I say, it started actually with a physical boundary with a piece of glass, because these were all in custody defendants. And so, and I’d seen from my dad, the need to have boundaries with clients, and so when I crossed over to family law helped out because one of the problems that I’m seeing out here in California with family lawyers is the over identification with clients. And, we don’t serve people when we’re cheerleaders for them, or when we take on their problems. I look at our job more as janitorial in nature. We didn’t create the mess, it’s not our mess, we just help clean it. But, when the lawyer gets involved, personalizes it. They’re not doing any help to anyone. So, I that’s, I think the one thing that’s helped me from criminal.
Clarissa Rayward:
Yeah. That makes sense. So, life as a family lawyer in Los Angeles, again I’ve now gone to the movies, so my visual is like, famous people and movie stars, and this really glamorous life as a family lawyer, tell me that’s exactly how it is Christopher.
Christopher Melcher:
Well, they’re certainly a lot of celebrities here, and very wealthy people who are getting a divorce, or need a premarital agreement, and I’ve had the opportunity to help them. What I’ve found is that they’re all the same. And, I’ve had the privilege of helping some folks, I don’t like to name names. And, I remember one person, when I was a kid the first rock concert I went to was by this particular performer. And, I’m a teenager, I’m watching this concert, and to think that as a family lawyer I would be assisting that person through a divorce, giving them advice, and being very direct about it 20 something years later, I could have never imagined that.
Christopher Melcher:
But like I say, these people are all the same as everyone else, they have the same problems. And, for some of them I actually have pity because they have not really had the emotional growth that other folks have had. And so, sometimes getting to know people is not the same, or you don’t look at them the same afterwards as their image was. And so, yes, I’ve been fortunate to help some celebrities, and hope to continue doing that work, but ultimately we’re all the same.
Clarissa Rayward:
Yeah. It’s so interesting, isn’t it? When it all comes down to it, we’re all just people with the same challenges and the same burden, to some of us I guess might appear more in magazines. I don’t know how it works. Your firm now in where you’re practicing, you’ve got a reasonable sized firm from what I can tell.
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. Right now we have a total of seven lawyers. Before at our highest we had nine lawyers, plus some contract attorneys, plus staff. We’re trying to add at least one more lawyer to get back up to our numbers. But, when I started with Peter Walzer, was me, him, and a secretary, and so we’ve grown this thing incredibly well. Tried to treat it as a business as much as possible. That’s one thing that I’ve really learned from Peter was, the business side of it. I think he wanted my trial experience, but I learned from him the business of law. And so, we’ve been incredibly successful, so fortunate to have a friendship, and together, and to be able to be business partners, and to grow this thing just beyond what I ever imagined.
Clarissa Rayward:
I love that, I guess your comment there around the business of law. Because I think, specifically for those of us that are running practices, you spoke earlier today about the technical training we need to become great attorneys in your world of lawyers, and how that is something, sadly, that you often can’t learn until you’re on the job. And then, I think that next transition that many lawyers make when they do start running a firm, or being a partner in a firm is, again, you’ve got to learn the business aspects of running a law firm, and we’ve got to remember that we are at the core of our business. And, I think sometimes there’s a sense that using even that word business is not appropriate in a profession like law that has so much ick attached to it, that I know myself that certainly has been the last 10 years of my life, has really been trying to learn business, and how that then plays into our work as a lawyer. Because that of itself, I think adds another weight or another layer to what can already be a somewhat stressful career.
Christopher Melcher:
Yes. And, I think that this notion that we’re professionals, and we don’t talk about business, or we don’t market. These things have stifled lawyers. That’s why lawyers are generally terrible at marketing themselves. They’re incredibly awkward, because it wasn’t that long ago that it was banned, we couldn’t market ourselves. And so, I think that there’s… What I realized is that, this idea that we’re doing some high form of art, and that we’re above doing business is why lawyers are not successful. And to me, I am doing this for one reason, which is to make money, and I know that sounds crass, but if I were not making money at this job, I would not be doing it.
Christopher Melcher:
And so, I am here to generate fees, so that I can operate this law firm, and pay employees, and hopefully have one or more of these folks that are here today take this over when I do step aside, and I’ve been very direct about that. And, it’s through that, that I think that I’ve been able to be successful, because I know what my priorities are. And so, this is not legal aid that we’re doing, we’re a for profit business, and so we’re very careful about the cases that we take, managing our receivables, setting expectations with our clients, and with our employees, and being responsible with the money that we have. We’ve invested, we at one point had two office buildings that we purchased as the firm, and just trying to grow and build something bigger than us, but it is for profit.
Clarissa Rayward:
And, I think you described that as crass, and I actually don’t. I think, again, I describe that as honest because I think we can get tied up in these notions of, “I’m here and I’m helping people, and it’s going to be okay, I’m going to make a difference in the world.” But, if you ultimately can’t pay your mortgage and provide for your family, and do those basic things that we need to be able to do from our work, then what really is the point. And, I think it is important to be focused on all of those icky, honest parts of the business piece where your team need to be paid, you need to be paid, everyone needs to be on the same page about these things, and you can’t run from them, and go, “It’s okay, as long as we’re doing great legal work, the rest will come in together.”
Clarissa Rayward:
I think they are all as important as each other, and for those that are making that step and moving into running a firm, you really do have to make sure that that is a priority, that you have systems around it, and that you’re really thinking about how are we managing our money, because in all of the coaching work I do with lawyers, and I know from my own experience, that wasn’t a priority of mine in my early parts of running my law firm, and I paid the price as a result. But, learning from that, and making it a priority, I think you can make almost a bigger difference in the world, when you’ve got capacity, particularly financial capacity to assist others, and choose when you might say, “We are going to do this piece of work at no cost to this deserving person, because we can, because we’ve been sensible and savvy in terms of how we’ve run our business from the core.”
Christopher Melcher:
Exactly. If our goal is to help other people, well, we certainly need to help ourselves. We have to take care of ourselves. Our businesses, our practices, whatever we want to call them are a direct reflection of ourselves, and so we need to be in physically good health, we need to be mentally balanced, and we need to be financially secure. And, if we don’t have those three things, we are not going to be good lawyers, we’re not going to be helping clients, and we’re not going to be good employers.
Christopher Melcher:
So, all of those things that are necessary for us to run a solid business, enable us to help other people, and so it’s not just selfishness or profiteering, we need to do those things. And, I think that what I’m seeing is, particularly with solos, and I was there, myself, I was a solo, I had no staff, and I didn’t have books, and the reason was, is because I wasn’t making that much money, and I didn’t want to pay attention to it. And certainly, once you’re making money, of course I want reports all the time.
Clarissa Rayward:
Yeah. So, true.
Christopher Melcher:
“Look at how great we’re doing.”
Clarissa Rayward:
Yeah. Exactly. It’s like, “Oh, I’m happy to track that now.” So, your comment, like you and I sing off exactly the same song sheet, in the sense that I agree with what you’re saying that your practice will always be a representation of how you the leader, or if there’s a group of leaders, how the group of leaders are showing up in their human lives. And, it’s very important to realize that really early on, if you’re not mentally well, physically well, and as you said, financially well in your human life, it’s going to be very difficult to be any of those things in your professional life.
Clarissa Rayward:
And that connection, I think is the piece that I’ve really been exploring in law through this podcast and through my work generally around wellness, is really trying to make that connection because I think historically lawyers, there was a lot of distance placed between here I am as a human being, and I keep all of that very silent and quiet, and I don’t tell anyone about it. And, here I am as a career person, and here’s the public face that exists. But, innately we are connected. We’re not two different people.
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. I mean, these family firms are all fairly tiny in comparison to other areas of law that might have 50, or 100, or 1000 lawyers. So, these are representative of us, and I think where I’m at now in my stage is looking at succession. And so, my partner, Peter, I think he’s 67, 66. So, three, four years, he may be interested in retiring. I can say I’ve got a nine-year plan-
Clarissa Rayward:
I hope so.
Christopher Melcher:
… pretty ambitious. Yeah. We work late out here. We got a number of family lawyers working into their 70s. And, I don’t want to do that, like I said, I want to be out of this much earlier. But, I think looking at giving other people an opportunity to step up and do it, my son is 12, he’s not going to have the opportunity by the time I’m out of this, so it’s these other folks that I’m working with, and I’m hoping that… And, they are doing a great job and making great steps towards it. But, to allow someone else to come in and take this, and what we’ve started and build off of it.
Clarissa Rayward:
Yeah, that’s it. Now I’m going to go sideways, because I know from your messages to me as we’ve set up this interview that at some point in time you found yourself out here in Australia. Tell me the story.
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. So, it was in 2013, I came with my wife and three-year-old son to come to a wedding, and her cousin was being married and lived in Sydney, and so the day that we arrived, unfortunately my wife had a brain aneurysm. And so, she was in critical condition at that point, and the roughest time of our lives. And so, there’s some lessons that I learned, and what happened is that I was told when she was diagnosed with this brain aneurysm, which is an artery in her brain had ruptured. That if she survived, that we would be stuck in Sydney for three months, at least until we could bring her home.
Christopher Melcher:
And so, I called my business partner, and I said, “Hey, I’m in a little trouble out here, and I’m going to be out here for three months.” And he said, no problem, he’ll take care of everything, and he did. And, there were a number of personal lessons I learned, but on the business side of it, and I’m happy we’ll go into maybe a little more detail about what happened in Sydney. But when I returned, finally, the business was still there, and that was a significant experience for me, because this firm that I helped build was my baby. I worked on it every single day and never left it alone, and to think that I would be away for months, what would happen with this firm. And so, that was an interesting experiment, to be taken and taken out as a firm leader, and to see what would be left when it came back.
Clarissa Rayward:
And, lovely to know that on one hand you’re replaceable, if that’s the right way of putting it. Or that the systems and the processes, and the team that you’ve built, and obviously your business partner, are able to do all of that. That’s what you want in business, isn’t it?
Christopher Melcher:
Exactly. And-
Clarissa Rayward:
Tell me more about Sydney? Oh, sorry. You go.
Christopher Melcher:
Yeah. I went from the beginning right to the end. So, it was the roughest time of my life, but really I’m so grateful of how I was treated. Because here I am, a foreigner in a place that I hadn’t really even got to sleep. I mean, it was the first day of the trip that this happened, and everyone was so kind. And, I’m just not used to that, because like I say, in Los Angeles we’re just not that kind. And, everyone was just a pleasure, and I really appreciated that, and learned how to get help. Because as a family lawyer, I mean my job is to help other people, I don’t get help, and I didn’t even know how to receive help. I always said, “No, I got this.”
Christopher Melcher:
And, I think maybe it’s being a guy, that we’re not supposed to be in need of help. That’s a failure. Vulnerability is not a good attribute for men. And so, I had to learn to accept help, and once I did, I saw such outpouring. And, I recall when I had to rent an apartment there, near Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, and my son and I after we would visit my wife in the hospital, we would do these day trips. So, I got a bus pass, and I get on the bus, and there was this one driver that it just tend to be the same guy, and we got to know each other a little bit, and he would just tell me jokes.
Christopher Melcher:
And, it was just that little thing that brighten my day. And, what I learned from that is, just little things, little acts of kindness can have a huge impact on people. And, now that I’ve learned to receive help from others, I’m on the lookout for how I can help other people because every one of us is struggling with something. And, we don’t talk about it, but we all have it in the background. And so, before when somebody would be unkind or short, distant, whatever, I would dismiss them. Now I’m saying, “Well, they’re probably suffering. They probably need something.” And, to try and help them.
Clarissa Rayward:
This is such a powerful part of what you’re sharing today, because it’s so true, isn’t it? These horrible things that happen to us, in your case, your wife’s illness, and they completely flip your worldview. They really do. And, I think sometimes in good ways, it doesn’t feel like it at the time as you’re working your way through these horrible events in our lives, but you’re so right in saying that everyone is carrying something. We live in a world that is so quick to judge, and so quick to assume, and never assumes the good, always assumes the evil. And yet, sometimes it is as simple as just slowing down and just maybe asking a few more questions, or trying to assume that maybe there’s more to the story. And even if there’s not, I always think, “What have you lost? What have you lost in treating someone with kindness?”
Clarissa Rayward:
If it turns out that they are just actually not a great person. Oh, well, I’ve lost nothing in that. I really think it’s something in life, generally, but particularly in the profession that you and I practice in, that we could do more, because it can be such a lonely, and aggressive, and adversarial place to be. And yet, there are so many great people that practice law, that if we do just give each other a little bit more time and opportunity, it can be amazing what you can learn about people.
Christopher Melcher:
I’ve embraced that. And before, I was more of an aggressive lawyer, and I had connections with other attorneys, and I tried to be as friendly as I could. But yeah, I was critical and dismissive. And now, I’m really going out of my way to be kind to people, and when I lose my temper, to apologize and admit that I was wrong. And, it’s so refreshing to other people, because they don’t expect it. So, I’ve really made some great friends with other lawyers, and been able to serve my clients better by treating people well. And, that’s just the-
Clarissa Rayward:
So true. Look, I think in my 20 years in law, there has been a bit of a flip in terms of how people are responding and reacting and treating each other. But, I think that’s the piece in the profession that I feel like we still have a lot to do, and it’s just how we treat each other. It’s just rethinking, I think the stereotypes of what it means to be a good lawyer, and coming back to some basics in life around being the loudest in the room doesn’t always make you the most successful. Thinking differently about how we advocate and how we problem solve, because I think certainly in the family law space, I like to think that’s really what our job ultimately is, is problem-solving. Because everything that we’re doing has a significant impact on that family moving forward, and the karma we can be in terms of helping them through the most difficult time in their lives, surely the better for them in the future.
Christopher Melcher:
Well, and that’s right. And, I think as lawyers, we have just as much capacity to do harm as help. I’m trying to follow the Hippocratic Oath. First do no harm. And, I’m thinking about being conscious, okay, when I say something, or I take an action, what effect is that going to have? Now certainly, there’s some cases where they’re going to go to court, and they’re going to litigate, there is no settlement, but that’s the rare, most of the time there can be a solution. They just need to know how to find it. And so, what I’m finding, though, is surprising is that the client doesn’t understand what the role of the lawyer is.
Christopher Melcher:
I had one celebrity client, we had a motion in court, and he wasn’t sophisticated much on legal issues, and we’re in court, and the other lawyer was standing up and yelling at the judge, and very passionate plea, and just wouldn’t back down, just kept arguing, arguing, arguing, and I didn’t say a word. And at the end, and we drove in together, so I was driving back with a client and he says, “Well, this other lawyer, he outdid you, he out argued you.” And I said, “Well, we won.” And, it was clear to me that we were going to win. Why would I say anything? I’m just going to mess it up. But, he wanted the fight, he wanted to see his lawyer go up there and yell, and scream, and do all that, because that’s what he felt was good representation. To me, I’ll take the win, but… So, I’m trying to manage client expectations, and that’s, I think hard, is that we see the right path, the successful path, but sometimes they want us to do it differently and put on a show for them.
Clarissa Rayward:
So, true. And, I can only imagine that’s even more the case in Los Angeles. I always think of television soaps when I think of lawyers, and so many of them come out of the states, and very few of them involve kind, calm, considered lawyering. It was often the opposite. Now, Christopher, I have one small challenge in my life this morning, and that is, that a helpful judge here in Australia listed one of my matters to start in literally two minutes. So, I am going to be wrapping this interview up, which is such a shame, because there are so many more pieces that I feel like you have to share with me, but I’m going to go straight to my final things. What advice would you give to someone considering law? I mean, you’ve got a 12-year-old son that you’ve mentioned. You’ve had what sounds like a fascinating and amazing career. What advice would you give?
Christopher Melcher:
It’s a great job if you want to help people, and just to realize, though, that we are selling our time, and that our time is precious, we have such limited amount of it. And, there is choices that we make, where we help a client that means we can’t be with family, or friends, or doing a hobby. And so, to know your worth, and to expect to be paid for it, or compensated for it, or know what your reward is for it rather than just giving, giving, giving. But, I think it’s a great career. And, my other piece of advice is just a small community and ask for help, and there’s so many kind lawyers out here that have been helped, that are more than willing to help out a young lawyer, or somebody transitioning into a different area, and all they have to do is ask, and there are people that will definitely step up.
Clarissa Rayward:
Amazing. Thank you so much for… I think you’ve stayed up late to be on this show today. And, thank you so much for reaching out across social media, there is I sense so much more that you could be sharing with me and all of the people listening to this show, but regardless, some really beautiful pieces of advice and perspective. I think you have a beautiful perspective on life and the law, so thank you.
Christopher Melcher:
Thank you for having me.
Clarissa Rayward:
So, I loved that. And as I said at the beginning, my only disappointment as such is that I had to race off that call, because I really do feel that I could have learned so much more from you, Christopher. So, thank you very much for taking the time to stay up late, and participate in a conversation with me for this show. Just again, that reminder, I think that the world is such a small place. So, interesting how similar it is whether you’re a family lawyer in Los Angeles, or a family lawyer here in Brisbane, or a lawyer generally, just the similarities in what we all have to manage in this career, and then how we do it, and how we can all obviously learn from each other as a result.
